Hello everyone! Thank you for attending this morning's webinar organised by the PDM and Adobe. There are 250 of you registered, we're glad you like the format and that many of you are with us this morning. Today, we are going to be together for 30 to 45 minutes to learn more about the digital transformation of an institution we all know: the AFP. The presentation will last about 30 minutes and will be followed by a Q&A session. You can ask all your questions on the Questions tab, which is located on the right side of your screen, and intervene in the chat at any time during the presentation. I'll hand over to Glwadys Rialland, who is a Solution Consultant for Adobe Marketo. Enjoy the webinar and please feel free to ask any questions you may have. Good morning everyone. I hope you are all well. Today, we are going to talk about AFP's digital transformation. So, AFP is Agence France Presse, it's over 1,700 journalists who strive for independent journalism and today we're lucky to have with us Nicolas Giraudon. Nicolas is the marketing director. We also have Sylvain Davril. Sylvain is our partner from the Merlin/Léonard agency and an expert in the implementation of the Marketo tool. Sylvain, I'll give you the floor without further ado. Thank you, Glwadys, and good morning everyone. You said it, AFP is a pretty well-known institution. But when I arrived two years ago at AFP, called by Nicolas, in fact, I realised that I didn't know AFP that well. So I'm going to present to you AFP very quickly. Because not everyone knows that AFP is a private company and that AFP is mostly B2B. We all see AFP news. So, if like me you look at the news on Google or Facebook, you'll see all the AFP news. We all think that AFP is more B2C, but it's not. AFP works in 150 countries, quite often for news agencies, for the big media and even companies like Facebook or TikTok in order to do what is called debunk the news, hunt down fake news, which is really topical today, and offer video and textual content to all these big media. I met Nicolas two years ago. Nicolas is from emlyon and the INSEAD. He's more of a start-up guy. Within AFP, he has therefore an intrapreneurial profile. He spent nine years in Asia before joining the marketing team to lead the marketing and sales force, so in the field. And he joined the marketing team three years ago. So, the first question I want to ask Nicolas is: when you took the reins in marketing, what were the challenges you had to face? First of all, thank you, Glwadys and Sylvain, for the invitation. Good morning everyone. I'm really happy to share this moment with you. So Sylvain, first of all, you presented the agency very well. So what were the challenges when I arrived a little over three years ago? I would say there were three key challenges. One is the team and its missions. Two in terms of technology tools and then three in terms of objectives. The obsession with the objective. I'll get back to that. First of all, in terms of the team and its missions, there weren't yet clearly stated missions in terms of lead GPPM and customer relations. That is, marketing was more in a role of creating a lot of credibility decks. Which is quite normal in a B2B business, as you said. The sales people approach the customers and make pitches, so one to one or one to few, but we were not yet on a one-to-many digital dimension. And it was all the more important to start thinking about this transformation, because in parallel, we see that the context of a buyer and the behaviour of a B2B buyer had already changed for several years. A LinkedIn study showed that, I remember the number very well at the time, 90% of the buying journey of a B2B customer was online. So like you and I, just like a B2C player, we're going to look for a supplier, we're going to look for functionality, look for services, feedback from potential customers and prices, online. And the sales contact comes at the last moment. So, in the face of this paradigm shift, I would say, on the B2B buyer behaviour side, how could we respond better? And so that was probably the challenge; transforming a PowerPoint factory into a digital factory. The second point in terms of the technology, we had... My predecessor had already started a CRM project. It was a really good thing of course. But we didn't have a vision on marketing automation and the projects were also sequential. We were planning to launch a CRM tool and behind it, there would have been emailing tools instead, email blasts. So more push, outbound, rather than inbound. How do you afford that? How do you track the leads? That was the second challenge. And the third challenge was from a point of view of objectives. Not obsessing over the objective in terms of lead gen or customer relations. So how do you set objectives that are shared by all? So, as I said, AFP is a private company. Nevertheless, the first time I went to AFP, I felt that I wasn't joining a company quite like any other. When you go to AFP, for those who have never been before, I invite you to do it. It's Place de la Bourse, it's within the centre, in Paris. There's this bronze plaque that reminds us that AFP was created the day after the Liberation to provide France with an independent press. And when you go up the stairs at AFP, you see all the pictures that we all saw in the media. I have in mind the handshake between Yasser Arafat and... and the Israeli leader, I don't remember his name, at Camp David. Or the photos of Nelson Mandela. And you can see that AFP is a company with a mission. So you talked about people technology goals. How did you meet these challenges with this culture? So, before any transformation, no matter how small, the main thing is being able to line up the teams so we could already share missions and a vision within the marketing team. We really asked ourselves the question why we were doing what we were doing. This is a bit like Simon Sinek's "Why" video, you know, that video, that TED Talk that asks why, the purpose of a business, the reason for being. We asked ourselves the question of why we exist at the heart of marketing. What were our missions? What was our contribution to AFP and, more broadly, outside AFP? With the team, we really brainstormed. We asked ourselves questions, we defined those missions. And to be transparent with you, the number one mission that we defined was to create qualified leads to increase the sales pipeline and thus contribute to the turnover of our agency income. And two: building customer loyalty, that is, by offering them solutions, more flexible offers and then two: increasing, improving the customer experience. Once we have defined our missions, we've also defined our vision. The vision within us is to contribute in a tangible way to the funding of quality, independent journalism with verified, reliable, unbiased information. And then we ask ourselves, what if we could, thanks to every communication, whatever actions we undertake, transform the person we meet, whether it's a buyer, B2C, B2B or any other person, into an ambassador of independent, verified, thorough news? That would be great. And it's all the more important in the age of fake news. You said it well earlier. More than ever, the role of a news agency is essential. This network of journalists around the world who work in a neutral, independent way, is key. So there you go, once we have defined the missions, the vision, it's much easier to align the team and then, of course, the means come after. So two relatively classic missions that you find quite often in marketing teams but in an AFP context that has a vision and has a mission in the world. What about technology? So, technology. We launched the CRM in 2019. Behind that, the marketing automation tool has become absolutely central. An absolutely central tool to capture leads. It helped us, if you will, streamline, and rationalise the entire emailing tool system, which was ubiquitous in the agency. Including internationally. Many solutions. It also allowed us to merge our contact databases into one. Which was handy. It allowed us to be quickly GDPR compliant, which was essential and critical. And then, when management decided to go in one direction, it's also important to show results, concrete things. So we were able to, thanks to Marketo as well, create templates for offer pages, create business cases. And of course, for B2C, for a lot of other companies, simplified joint-stock companies, it's obvious. So, we were at that point and we were replacing more and more the PowerPoint credibility decks by digital pages, which helped us reach many more people. So it's about visible, concrete things with quick results, always choosing the small steps method. We start with a page, an offer, and then see how it goes, then we can make a second one. And the third point, I would say, on the challenge, we talked about objectives, once we defined the missions of the team together, the shared vision, we have the tools, we are together, we have set ourselves with precise objectives. On the objectives, it's interesting because I often meet marketing teams that have a hard time convincing management, at the outset, to get a start on the budget and launch the project to be able to demonstrate initial results. So how did you manage to convince your management? What did you put in place as an indicator at the beginning and what are the concrete results today? So I was going to say that when I arrived, the luck that I had was that there was already a newly appointed management who came from companies that were extremely modern in terms of... and I would say successful in terms of digital marketing, B2C companies. So for them it was obvious that digital marketing is essential. So that would help with the context. So how to convince? Two key elements that I kept reminding myself, is that a : you can't contribute to the business if AFP doesn't have a way to get lead capture tools, processing, analysis and management of these leads. It seems like a no-brainer, but without marketing automation tools, you can't create business or help sales people to create business and sign deals. And then the second point is : you can't get better if you don't measure your performance. We also needed the tools to measure this performance, communicate it, see where the friction points are and always be in an iteration mechanism. All of that, I would say, was convincing enough to take a key marketing automation tool: Marketo. And also earning new skills. New digital marketing skills and new data analyst skills to continuously measure the evolution of performance. So the angle of attack is data. Making decisions based on data. Absolutely. Strengthen what works, quit what doesn't work, but based on facts and not by rule of thumb. What indicators did you manage to get? What results? On the indicators, I've broken it down into four main years. Four stages. The maturation of digital marketing at the agency. We started with the year 2019, year number one. I'll call it internally the initiation year. That is, we launched the tools that we've put in place. So the first simple measure was the number of QLs. This is on the top of the funnel, the MQL, the contact that you get and that we will, at the marketing level or regional lead gen, qualify by stating: "This contact seems to be relevant, a good target, we'll pass it on to the salesperson so that they can qualify it into a SQL." Since the MQL is completely under our control at the start, it's the volume of MQL that we measured last year. This MQL volume was again reported everywhere, in open spaces, on our TV screens, on the intranet. The missions and results were continuously updated in real time. So MQL is good, but at the same time, it's not significant for management. Management, if you want to ask them to invest a bit more in the following years, by increasing the size of the marketstack, the technology stack to do more advanced stuff, well, we had to move on to turnover, to measuring turnover. So what we did this year, in 2020, we put in place a KPI, which was the measurement of turnover over 12 months, a full year, following the signing of a deal by a salesperson. That is, we measure the turnover generated by the leads that come from digital marketing. So it's communicated to all the meetings and we see this evolution, this curve going up, which is extremely encouraging. It's very, very, very encouraging to see things move and at least we know exactly what we are doing and where we're going. So you started... in a relatively simple way, with the beginning of what we call the funnel, the sales funnel. And then, little by little, as your maturity increases, you were able to go further and further to the contribution of marketing to the result which is one of the ultimate indicators that you obviously build. That's it. If you want to talk in terms of numbers, because I imagine that our audience will be interested in numbers, there are two numbers, maybe, that I can share, that are really positive. That's, today, 85% of the clients that opted-in and who come from digital marketing are clients that the agency had never met before. So the opportunity that we have with marketing automation is really creating new business and even business diversification. There are companies that we could never have reached out to before. Even if the average basket is sometimes a bit lower, it's business diversification, it's extremely... positive. And then perhaps the second key number that we can share, that we just measured, it's like you said, this KPI, which is the contribution of digital marketing, from marketing automation to new business. So you can see that in some areas of the agency, we have large regions in the commercial world, the contribution of digital marketing reaches double digits in terms of percentage for the contribution of new business. Once again, it's becoming tangible, visible to everyone, even though we're in a B2B industry, that we're less advanced than B2B, but this is already a first step in a long way ahead of us. This is a result that we see quite often. The introduction of marketing automation is a means of getting data, which we previously didn't have or had but in a very fragmented way with siloed solutions, which translates to a lot of complexity to reconcile the data. And we can see the influence of heightened marketing solutions in the revenue. So Sylvain, you actually assisted AFP with this digital transformation. Could you share your feedback with us and how did this assistance work? We weren't quite finished, Glwadys. I'll let you finish then. Nicolas wanted to tell us the reason for Marketo, just now. We had talked about KPIs and the second point was technology, then there's... Technology, yeah. The question was, I think, what are the criteria for choosing a tech solution and marketing automation solution? So, the criteria we looked at were three criteria. I like it because it's in threes. It was firstly technology capability, a robust technology that could evolve with us. That is, we started at the very beginning with extremely simple things, I mentioned page templates earlier with business cases on Marketo, rolling out forms on different pages, so that's step one. But that can also assist us in what I call optimised performance in year four, where we use artificial intelligence or much more advanced things that are planned for us in two years. To go all the way and have a robust technology, these steps are essential. And for technology to assist us and not changing the tool midway is extremely important. How did we choose this technology? We looked at Forrester studies, the famous Magic Quadrant. We paid attention to customer feedback like any buyer, and that was a key point. Second key point was internationalisation. The fact that the company you're working with is international. For us, in the AFP context, we have 151 offices around the world, as we've said, 1,700 journalists, a lot of administrative staff and more and more marketers in the region, lead gens. Having local contacts is essential if there are legal issues, regional issues that need to be taken into account. Take the example of the double opt-in in Germany or other things abroad. Having local contacts, local partners, is essential. And it's good to have a player, not just a solution provider, but someone who can also help us with contacts. And the third point, it's really essential in the end, it should have been the first one really, it's the question of interconnectivity. Interoperability, what does that mean? When you take a technology solution and marketing automation solution, then it's other solutions that we're going to hang on to this marketing automation solution to improve performance, to analyse user behaviour, to trigger automations with other tools. This marketing automation solution - that's how we defined it for our needs -, must be connectable with a lot of other solutions available on the market. So that means it's connectable to Google Tag Manager, it's connectable in one click with a video player tool, where it allows us to do some scoring according to the progress, user engagement. If the user has only seen 25% of the video, there is less scoring, they get fewer points than someone who has seen 75% of the video. And when you choose two video player technologies or even a chatbot, what we're looking at now, is if it's connectable once, if data can be exchanged, such as contacts and behaviours, it's key. So there you have it, three key criteria that we've looked at closely. So, to sum up, you were looking for a solution that could grow with you, where there was no concern for the international aspect, and which was at the heart of an ecosystem of technologies that could connect natively. Since indeed, when you progress in maturity, we'll see it right after, there are more and more things we want to do. Marketing is constantly coming up with new ideas, and these ideas are often embodied by another technological solution that has to be integrated with the first one. Exactly. Are you connected to the CRM in the first place? No, you weren't logged into the CRM, I think. Good vital question, Sylvain. Actually, we didn't have a connection and we still don't have a connection on our CRM and marketing automation. That's the way it is, it was a CRM choice that was made at the time, that made sense at the time. There was no such anticipation of the marketstack ecosystem. And that's OK, we make do. There are other ways to deal with it. But on the other hand, the decision we made at the time, which was essential, was really to disassociate the projects, not wait for the CRM to be fully deployed or mature enough before deploying marketing automation. We started the whole marketing automation without any adherence to the IS, i.e. without any connection with our information system, so that we can start much faster, create POCs, learn. If we had to wait for the CRM to be fully deployed to do marketing automation, we wouldn't be as mature as we are today. We're still at the beginning, but we wouldn't have taken those first steps. So, that's essential. The fact that we delineated and disassociated both projects, I think it was quite structuring and allowed us to quickly start the digital marketing automation project without connecting to the CRM. Yeah. We always think intuitively that it is absolutely necessary to have a perfect CRM already in place to implement marketing automation. What I see, after doing 70, 80 projects, is that in 50% of the cases, a bit less, we start marketing automation without necessarily connecting to the CRM. Why? Because with an account of a certain size, the ISD has its own deployment plan. And sometimes it's more interesting, like Nicolas, to start marketing automation, to start getting results in order to prove that it works. And once it's started, have a bigger budget and get into the IT department's plans to connect the CRM. Obviously, when you're more of a start-up and you don't have a big application portfolio, it's quite easy to connect, for example, to Salesforce or Microsoft Dynamics with Marketo right away. But that's not necessarily the case with you. When you started Nicolas, another difficulty that I encounter quite often with the teams is that when we start that kind of transformation, there are too many tasks, too many sites. So, how do you prioritise actions? What choice did you make to prioritise your actions when you joined? I talked about objectives earlier and then I also talked about obsessing over them. Objective obsession, obsessing over focus as well. For us, for the team, it's about staying focused in obsession cycles over several weeks, several months and iterate. So, one objective at a time. If we take our number one obsession, which we had at the very beginning when we launched, as I had it a bit and I'll refer to it, it was optimising the points of contact, just deploying the forms on the contact pages and offer pages. We improve little by little and really measure, set up the funnel measurement; so really the contact funnel, MQL, SQL, opportunities in our CRM, test accounts, new clients signed, sales. As long as we hadn't optimised the points of contact and replaced the measurement of our actions, there was no point in doing personal web, it was useless to do a lot of automation, there was no point in doing scoring or paid advertising, and then there was the desire to do paid advertising. That's great, we have a new page, we want to bring in an audience on this page, create traffic. But until you have, organically, in a very simple and modest way at the beginning, tested everything that we put in place, there's no point in doing anything else. That was the number one obsession. Obsession number two, for me, was to increase the quality of the leads and then the data especially and then the workflow. So, we've done a lot of iterations for this funnel. What I talked about, measuring the funnel, making sure we didn't miss any information or that the data is of quality. We still have a lot of manual work, but I want to say that as long as your hands don't hurt, despite the thousands of leads, we don't automate and we don't develop in the rough because it means that our processes can still be improved. So, we keep improving these processes, obsession number two, that is, we start to get to the end of the reliable measurement from the generated revenue by marketing automation. Step two, obsession number two. But we don't do anything else. Obsession number three, sometimes, it's hard for the teams to hear the same thing over and over again on the screens, even the apprentices have to recite the credo. We keep focusing on that. The third goal now and obsession of the moment is scoring, for us. This is really the scoring line-up that we've set up with the sales people. Because a salesperson will always say: "What you're sending me is not hot enough. The lead actually didn't want that. Try to send me only quality leads." It's normal for them to say that. There's not much time available to process a large volume of leads, so we need to send the right ones, so right now it's scoring. And for me, the obsession that's going to come next is really going to be the much more mature automation and especially nurturing. All the contacts that we don't have, that don't turn into a deal, but that we have in the database, that are relevant contacts that have been validated, why not in SQL, by the salespeople, well, how do you keep them enticed? How to send them business cases, create webinars, create disinterested attention to our business and engage them for 2021. So it's really the mechanics of going step by step, one obsession at a time and trying not to do anything else. Which is extremely difficult when you have so much potential with tools like Marketo, including artificial intelligence by the way. We try not to push all the buttons, we focus on one thing at a time. Thank you very much for the feedback Nicolas, it's absolutely fascinating. Sylvain, can you share with us your feedback on the support that you were able to get from AFP? Yes, of course. I'm going to share with you an infographic, which actually takes up the points. What we saw with Nicolas, wait, I'll share, I have to find the button. There. Share screen. Hop! What Nicolas explained to us is that he went in stages. He took the worksites one after the other. He did not let himself be diverted by the sirens of paid advertisements at the start of artificial intelligence - he's very amused -, and by everything we can see. He started with the basics. It sounds silly, but after doing 70, 80 marketing transformation projects around marketing automation projects with Adobe, I tried to put on this infographic what I've learned from them. You're getting to the... Forgive me, Sylvain, can you make it just a bit bigger, zoom in a little bit? Yeah, I just wanted to show that there's a base camp and there are six steps. I'll go through them very quickly. Normally, Fabian will put it in the chat, and you'll have it in the follow-up, you'll be able to download this infographic. I also provide you with a little quiz to see where you are in this journey and you have blog posts that talk about all this. The idea is to say that, lesson one, there is a certain way of linking the worksites together. And if you don't do it the right way, it explains quite often why some companies are blocked or are held back in their development. For example, one of the worksites that we often forget at the beginning is data quality. This is also the moment you're going to convince your management, try to draw up a three-year budget, and define KPIs, as Nicolas has done so well, define objectives. Sometimes you throw yourself into the technology before clearly laying the foundations, and especially in camp one: your content strategy, thinking about what you're offering, thinking about your buyer journey, transforming your website so that it can accommodate lead generation. Sometimes, it's painful to do things the old fashioned way, but it helps to lay the foundation and you only automate what works, actually. Marketing automation is like a great Formula 1, but if your trajectory leads you to crash into the wall, you'll just hit the wall faster. So, even though I'm in love with Marketo, I've got a tattoo on my back, I'm the first to say that you shouldn't start by purchasing Marketo, you have to start with those two steps. Then, next, you can choose your marketing automation. You have to connect it to the CRM, that's what we're doing at AFP. It's a great way of aligning marketing and sales, I have time to say a bit more. And we start, very simply, like Nicolas did, by automating these existing campaigns, by adding forms to the pages, doing outbound marketing instead, so by working on the deliverability of your emails. There's no shame in starting like that. Why? Because the content, the customer journeys, it takes a long time to happen. So, everything we've decided here, it usually takes a little while. And that's once we've cut our teeth, you know, that we've had a good practice on the outbound marketing, that we can set up inbound marketing campaigns, i.e. chaining campaigns, measuring where people are coming from, identifying ambassadors, enhancing customer knowledge with what people are filling out, heeding customer feedback. And I'm going to go a bit faster at the end since I can't detail everything here. Then, we can set up strategies where it's the prospect who will trigger the next steps in the conversation, try to automate the conversation with the prospects, not one to one, but one to few. And the conversations, the nurturing streams, the nurturing flows will kick off little by little based on the actions of the prospect. That's really the Holy Grail. And indeed, at the end, when you've done all that, you can do some pretty cool stuff like setting up, at different points in the customer journey, artificial intelligence where it is relevant - it is not always relevant -, measure in real time the ROI of campaigns. So that's a sad reality; until we've put a number of things in place, including data quality, the calculations you will make will not be relevant, so it's pretty late. You can measure things much earlier, but the real campaign ROI, in real time, is more towards the end. The second lesson is that to do all this, there's no secret, it takes time. Unless you're a start-up, if you don't have an application portfolio, if you can go very fast, obviously, there's no problem. But most of the clients I meet have a history and let's not kid ourselves, it takes about two years even when you go at full tilt. So you have to convince your management that you're going to do it for the long term. And the third lesson is that if you go down this road, if you go all the way, the promise of it all - because why make all this effort in the end - is that you will multiply your conversion rate by 12, a factor of 12. Where does this number come from? It's from a global study that Adobe Marketo did a few years ago. We go from a conversion rate of 250 leads, so 250 that go into the database for one win, one opportunity gained when you're at the very beginning, to about 20 for one, at the end. So, the promise of it all, and what you can use to convince management, which you can find on my website after taking the quiz, there is an income calculator, it's this conversion rate increase that we're all looking for to, one, avoid talking to people who are not interested in you and whom you are not interested in. That reduces the number of people you're likely to bother in a given situation, in an age where we're over-saturated with information. And work on the whole conversion rates throughout the funnel to maximise conversion rates. These are the three lessons I can share with you today. Thanks, Sylvain. I'd like to take this opportunity to switch to the questions which were asked by the participants, and especially by Alexandra, who asked how the onboarding on Marketo is going. I think that, Sylvain, you've partly answered the question through this presentation. But more importantly, are there any difficulties in implementing the solution? And how long does it take to be operational? I'm going to be very, very frank; I train all my clients to be autonomous on Marketo and the "ah ha!" moment appears after four days of training. In 100% of the cases, my clients tell us... Marketo doesn't take two hours. It's a solution that does a lot of things. I love it. I have Marketo myself, in-house. So you can have Marketo when you're a small company. And we have a training process that leads to autonomy in four days. So for a marketing project, to put all the workshops in place, it's between five and 15 days, quite concretely. To share a testimonial; we have journalists who have switched to Marketo to do nurturing newsletters and who did not have a particular marketing skill but in a few days, they also managed to quickly get on board. So, the main thing is practice. The main question is: how long is there between training and practice? Practice has to be immediate, during, before, after and continuously. That's what increases performance. So, to be totally transparent too, it's true that Marketo, compared to other simpler solutions... it's like being on a passenger plane: before, we had little emailing tools that were simpler, now we're on an airliner with all the options, the solidity, etc., but at the same time, it's very powerful. So, at first, the number of options that we have can be quite amazing. But in any case, mastering the first few features is extremely quick. OK. A question that is connected to that as well, from Caroline: how do we get people on board and initiate digital transformation? I think that's a question that can be directed to both of you, Sylvain and Nicolas. Actually, Nicolas did it very well. Many projects that fail are the projects that start in, what I call, shadow IT. That means we don't want to convince management too much, we don't want to discuss too much with the ISD, so we're doing a side project on our own. Sure, we can try to collect results. But today, in the current context, it's still very hard to get results if, at some point, you don't import the CRM base into the marketing automation, if you don't connect to a webinar tool, if at some point you don't log in to a tool that does quizzes, or a chatbot. So, at some point, we're going to need the ISD and at some point, we're going to need to go back to management and say: "Look, this is starting to work, we need to speed it up." So... it might seem easier at first to do something on your own, but I think convincing management, convincing them of the value of engagement marketing, i.e. to stop mass emailing at full blast, to create that inbound marketing strategy, that's crucial. In the same way that today, we don't think about whether we have a CRM or not. I've been lucky enough to do projects for 25 years. 20 years ago, we wondered whether we should have a CRM or not. We thought: "Well, do I have a CRM or don't I have a CRM? Nowadays, it seems obvious to everyone that you need a CRM. We are in the marketing business today as we were in sales 20 years ago. We ask ourselves: do we need marketing automation or not? In 10 years, it will be obvious that, to manage properly a marketing department or a marketing team, you need a marketing stack. In the same way that you need a CRM, data quality, and people in charge of... sales up, I mean. It's the same thing. Nicolas, I'll let you answer, sorry. Actually, I'm going to repeat myself, but that's not a problem if everybody accepts it. That's really asking the question of digital transformation, but to what end? What contribution will this digital transformation bring? That's the main question we have to ask ourselves. Why do we do what we do? Also, fundamentally asking: is it to increase business? Is it to keep customers coming back? Is it to increase awareness? What is the objective? What can't we do today that we'll be able to do tomorrow? What are the most important issues that we'll be able to solve? How can a digital transformation enable us to do things faster, easier? It's going to be scalable. Eventually, either the cost of acquiring a lead will be lower, or we're going to increase our ability to get projects started. We're going to be more agile. So, it's really about asking "why?" And not just for top down management, but really for the teams: what are their daily struggles? What would they like to do? For me, digital transformation is really done, once again, with humility, with what we've achieved on a small scale. On the lead gen, it's involving people who are going to be the first tool users. Knowing what kind of struggles they're going to face, what their aspirations are. Do we all already share common values? Do we have a common set of values? When we have a common base of values in society, that's where we build. What are our struggles, what are the contributions we want to make? And at this point, the tool and digital transformation come after. OK. We have a question from Aurélie, which is related to this theme: how was the cooperation like with the sales teams to set up the tools to measure contribution from marketing to turnover? On measuring turnover contribution, we didn't set up an algorithm or a calculation model or a complicated distribution key. For now, we just calculate the turnover that comes from a lead generated by marketing. We take 100% of the turnover over 12 months. So, we're on an extremely simple contribution model. We didn't do a breakdown and say: what is the contribution of marketing? What is the contribution of sales? As we are in year two of implementation, we're still on the first step. Later on, we'll move towards contribution models that already exist but we're already there. As for how the salesperson dealt with it or how do they deal with digital marketing? Because, all of a sudden, you could imagine in some companies that the sales people are wondering: "What's going on? Marketing has a turnover which is mine, actually. I'm the one who signed the deal after all." It's true that in this discussion, there can be questions about that. So, the important thing is to involve the sales people from the start and to show them that the benefit for them is really to get new leads who don't have time to go and look, to have an extra income, the chance to earn more turnover. So, the more we work together to qualify leads, the more we work together on scoring and scoring quality, the more quality leads they get, the happier they'll be, they can make money. So, if we have a cooperation, a co-construction of processes, it's much easier. Even if co-construction takes time, it's often said that it's better to move forward as a team than to proceed alone. It takes more time, but we'll get there much stronger. Everything takes time. But if the profits are included and the profits, for everyone, are identified, it's easier to work together. You're automatically making the connection, Nicolas, with what will be the last question, so that we can respect the timing of this webinar. From which step can you see the benefits of a digital transformation? This is a question from Davina. Good question, but again, it depends on the objectives we set for ourselves. If the objective is to put new pages back online and give a more modern view of a company or to get more contacts, honestly, it can come much faster than if you just want to have an impact on the turnover in the whole organisation. So, at what stage do we see the impact: it depends on the objectives you set. So my recommendation is: set a simple objective, understandable by everyone, that we can achieve relatively quickly. If we had set the turnover contribution on day one, we might have been demoralised after several months, because it's too complicated to measure. We can make these objectives evolve as we move along the maturity of our transformation. My advice is: take a simple objective at the beginning, like we did at the beginning. MQL generation was under our control. How many contacts between? But the contacts were not relevant for us, because there can be anything in the contacts. So, it's more like qualified MQLs, how many qualified contacts. And from that, immediately, it was measurable and we could see the evolution so that the other teams could see the impact of their work immediately. From which phase can you see the impact? I recommend that you set the smallest target as possible at the beginning, set up POCs, proof of concepts, take very small steps and see impacts as soon as possible to continue in a cycle of iterations and improvements. I don't know if I'm answering the question clearly enough, I hope that's the case. Thank you very much, Nicolas. Thank you, Sylvain. That's the end of this webinar. Thank you to all of you who participated and who were active on the questions. And I wish you all a very nice day. Thank you all, see you soon. Goodbye everyone. Thank you everyone. Have a nice day.